Measuring the ROI of something isn’t predicated on just doing it, it’s predicated on how good you are at it. (swoosh) This portion is like with me so I think this is when you need to get selfish, like you need to ask your question. (upbeat rock music) Hiring is guessing, firing is knowing. Like you gotta go fast. That’s how you get shit done, that’s how you figure stuff out. This is the television and the television is the radio.
The four D’s motherfuckers. Great let’s go right into direct questions. – All right so with us being in Denver we spend (cuts out) a year in advertising predominately. – On running a television? – Predominately. – Yeah makes sense. – Radio, that kinda stuff, but we realize that the way that we need to go is this way. And so we’re not familiar at all. So it’s a two part question, first is for how do we transition and how do we measure how the transition should go percentage wise into that (cuts out) where we just opened two months ago (cuts out) And in 10 cases, so it’s not a good. – (mumbles) and TV? – Yes. – 10 cases. – 10 cases. – And what would you need for (cut off) and for your business model? – Well basically our average right now (cuts out) cases we don’t know yet but our fee average is (cut out). And so if we assume the same fee then you’re gonna need over 10 cases a month to breakeven on the ROI to the (cut out) spend.
– I understand. And so you’re asking how to measure the transition? And launch, I got it I got it. So let’s start with Denver. There’s only two things you can do. One, so I’m gonna jump around. And ’cause I wanna give answers that always bring value for everybody. Measuring the ROI of something isn’t predicated on just doing it, it’s predicated on how good you are at it. Right? So like this is where people get caught with this question. The everything I’m about to say, the complete variable is how good you are at the thing. That includes television. The place where everybody gets caught in television, in Instagram, in Amazon, in everything is they get something to work in their math and they will realize that they still have, they can still innovate their creative to do better. You’re getting 20 cases in Denver.
The reality is you’ve been running that same commercial for so long, you might be able to get (cut out) if that commercial was better. So one of the great things about digital versus television is your ability to ideate even when something works. I’m just trying to make sure we establish that because that is the big punchline here. When I tell you what I’m about to tell you, which is well well it’s easy, you can take 10, 20, 25, 50, or 75% of the money in Denver, you move it to Facebook and YouTube, and at the end of the month if you did better against the way, it’s not super hard math. The problem is, first of all it takes time for something to kind of actually create brand, which is why you’re seeing a difference Arizona versus Denver because by the 13th time ’cause I listen to the same fucking radio station that I hear your shit, I convert.
Versus the first time in Arizona that’s just a big difference, that’s brand. Number two, so in Denver I would do a couple things. One, first you have to feel confident that you understand how to do the creative and the media distribution. What’s everyone’s like digital’s so great. Cool, it’s also super hard. Like what makes it great is what makes it hard.
There’s unlimited variations and always constant movement. What made TV and print and radio billboards so great for everybody is the distribution became locked and you knew what you were locking into. And the only conversation for the last 60 years has been the creative. You’re not debating how the billboard works. I guess digital came along, digital billboards that would be example, but in my world tomorrow Instagram could change a feature that creates a new arbitrage. The actual distribution changes. What is amazing about digital though is we can do 74 variations of content, not just one. How long have you been running the same commercial in Denver? – We run them about six months and then change them. – Oh that’s good. And so do you have like a hall of fame though? Like if something like that you’ll reboot something? – We do to a degree but the individual, the weird thing is is our guy is a medical doctor and an attorney, and so he’s a unicorn, so it cuts through the messaging compared to all the other.
– I understand. Here’s what I would do if I were you. In Denver I would spend 80% of the money that you’d spend right now on TV and I would force yourself creatively or look at your hall of fame or push yourselves to get 100% of the results for 80% of the dollars, which then takes pressure off on you completely. You know skinning your knee and chipping your tooth and bleeding and finding your way through digital, but you got 20% of the money creatively and media wise to be able to do that. And that would, that’s what I would do as the most conservative, as the most aggressive I would go 50/50. But that’s what you need to do. To me, the reason I love giving advice of take the 80 and make it act like 100, you’re working with house money on the 20% digital.
And so I’m always reminding people like hey, it’s not like you’re taking this money away because if you take it away and then you’re hurting, you’re gonna be impatient with my shit. And my shit is testing in perpetuity. If you guys saw the texts of shame between me and my team, I’m changing my mind 43 times a day. Like there’s so much ’cause that’s what unlimited distribution and unlimited creative variables ’cause of the costs associated do. You can’t buy, I can buy $88 worth of YouTube that could be effective, you can’t do that on television. I can do a thing on an iPhone.
I think all those people on television look too slick and full of shit. I think if you took your unicorn and he just filmed something on a fucking iPhone with bad lighting and you ran that shit, that might convert better ’cause it feels that more authentic. So those are some of the themes. As far as Arizona, there’s too many variables for me to give you a thoughtful answer. What I would, the thoughtful answer I would give you is take advantage of the fact that it’s new and actually do a ton of different shit in Arizona to see what may click ’cause you might get into a micro-insight on a pre-roll YouTube ad. If you’re not doing pre-roll YouTube based on people’s search queries, you have to do that.
So like you can, I’m sure these three, four core competitors you have in Denver that are trying to do the same shit. You could actually buy pre-roll YouTube based on people’s searching injury or claims or like there’s so much you can do for all of you, especially B2B. Pre-roll YouTube that’s based on what people are searching on Google is one of the best ads. You could have people, you could have a dentist searching dentist terminology but happens to be a Gary Vee fan. He goes and watches a Gary Vee video and you’re popping up as the pre-roll. That’s powerful. Some very very (mumbles) pre-roll YouTube based on Google search query for that’s agnostic.
And something I would do quite a bit of work. And then I think one of the other things that I would spend a lot of time on is a hell of a lot more digital auditing of every attorney, injury personality on the internet. I think you should invest, whether it’s you or the person below you, but no further than that, over 100 hours of qualitative consumption of every personal brand trying to convert on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube to just see if there’s anything you see. One of the biggest mistakes, one of the things I never talk that I’m starting, that literally this might be the first time I’m talking about, this is what’s good about two weeks vacation you get to thinking like fuck. I don’t know if I’m articulating enough to people how much fucking research I’m doing.
I’m, now I’m doing it with audience, I’m not seeing what Richard Branson’s doing or other, I don’t do that. I just consume everything my audience is doing with me. Everything. All of it. I just, I’m just reading all the fucking comments. So that. – Thank you. – Got it. – [Off Screen Man] So the advice I got from you in Phoenix was pre-roll. – Yes talk about it. – [Off Screen Man] Based on a Google. – Good to see I’m consistent. – [Off Screen Man] That’s exactly what you, so I started that the next week, got fairly good results but I struggled in figuring out what the ads gonna be and what, where I’m gonna send them, generally I send them over to the YouTube channel, what my trailer is, that kind of thing, so it’s the creative part of it that is huge. – Exactly no different than me saying “look you should become a basketball player, there’s only 15 of them on a team, the salary cap is super high, it’s a really good idea to become a basketball player if you’re seven years old right now ’cause you will make a billion dollars in 12 years and it’s a fairly good thing to do.” The next question is are you good enough to be a basketball player? So the device is right, and this is back to where I’m gonna go with this, please make sure that you don’t become, and I know you well enough because of our interactions, I want you to do unlimited variations.
And as much as you could be motivated to do that, that is the game. You do understand that one moment you get a spark of using a different adjective. Or it’s fucking hailstorm is outside and you just. Like it’s just one moment, you’re literally one moment from one version of creative and one search query, ’cause it’s two creative processes. What are they searching? Like the answer to your thing might be underwear. And I don’t wanna send you down a crazy rabbit hole, but it is scary to me that I’m giving you dentist, that’s literal, but maybe the terminology was MBA’s. Like you don’t really know. And it can cost you nothing. My big thing is that production value does not have to be extraordinarily expensive. As a matter fact, this literally the thought that just came to my mind I haven’t talked about, I almost think maybe you should only do all of it on your iPhone upfront, see if there’s a little (mumbles) and then maybe you come in on top of it and make the production value go a little bit up on the fact that you found something creatively.
This is all bottom up. How many different versions of content did you do for the pre-rolls? – [Off Screen Man] I’ve only got two or three. – Yeah so that’s what I wanna encourage you to like make 89. And then how many different search queries right? So you’re at two or three videos versus I don’t know how many search query groupings you’ve done? – [Off Screen Man] Probably I don’t know, couple dozen, something like that. – Which is ’cause it’s easier and what’s interesting is the creative is probably the bigger variable. And so I think you could, don’t overthink the creative. – [Off Screen Man] And then the second question is because. – Can I give you one I apologize ’cause it’s intuitive to me. I think you could massively over index with people that are 48 to 72 around just like, no different than Quit and things that nature. I also think you’re doing it’s generational, it’s family business, there’s a lot of things that are more macro than the literal nature of what you’re selling.
There’s a lotta people that buy my wine that are don’t drink wine, just cosigning that. And I think you represent something for a generation that might be fruitful. Something to think about. Not that everybody needs to become a motivational character or a, you know but, it’s one of the places, it’s one of the creatives you should run. I’ll give you an example. Terminology around changing your career or starting new business at 60, and then your video is starts right you know what they’re doing, so you’re starting with like look, how old are you? – [Off Screen Man] 59. – Great. Like I’m 59, love this shit, that may be the reason they convert.
You see where I’m going? – [Off Screen Man] I do. – You see? People get too literal. – [Off Screen Man] Gotcha. – I’ll give you a good one for dentistry. One of the things I’ve been super fascinated with when you read a ton, lawyers, doctors, and dentists that are 39 to 62 are stunningly miserable. Because a lot of them did it because they were supposed to or had to. That in itself is a crazy insight for your business that you can completely triple down on as a connection point with them that could transform your business. ‘Cause it’s a human insight, they’re part of the generation that still did what they were supposed to do or what their dad told them to do or like that right? – [Off Screen Man] Gotta replace them.
– ‘Cause they’re unhappy. Because what they really were was a rapper, ’cause what they really were was a sign designer, or a wine maker, but they had to become a dentist. And I think that is if you just lean into that content. If you start a YouTube video of like “are you a dentist ’cause your dad told you to?” That alone will convert scary. So that’s something I think you should play with. – [Off Screen Man] Family business, the generational thing, all of that, yeah. – If you made five pre-roll videos just on how to make a successful family business because you’re the son and then there’s somebody underneath you. Yeah dude you’re like you’re crazy, you’re perfect. You played underneath and you played above so you’re talking to everybody in a family business. It’s kind of what I’ve done with my dad and AJ. It’s given me the ability to play for both sides. You should do five different pre-role videos just on that and against family business search queries and see what they do. And by the way, you know what’s fun about this? And D-Rock knows this.
With the same level of passion I do this all the time, I’m usually happier if everything I’m saying right now doesn’t work. Because this is science. The no’s are as valuable as the yes’s. And that’s not what television or a booth at a convention does. There is no ability to play. – [Off Screen Man] Constantly testing. – In perpetuity. Constantly testing in perpetuity, get me that t-shirt D-Rock. I wanna wear it. – [Off Screen Man] Tiny bit of context so our company’s grown nicely over the last 20 years.
– How did it start? – [Off Screen Man] How did it start? – Yeah. – [Off Screen Man] When the founders wanted to solve a problem that they’d been talking about for previous 10 years but a dentist, a designer, and a business person decided to start a side business that. – Scratch rich. – [Off Screen Man] Tell us a story about your (mumbles). – Scratch rich. – [Off Screen Man] And it took off and they decided they wanted to change the way dentistry is done and a growing and thriving business, we’re all benefiting from that. One of the challenges systemically the business had over time was new customer turn. Our product requires dentists to do their work a little differently, it’s like. – I see yes. – [Off Screen Man] There’s a lot of new (mumbles).
So we saw about three and a half years ago systemically that turn. – You were leaking. – [Off Screen Man] So we focused on that quite a bit and really radically changed that trajectory. – Good for you, by listening? Up front? – [Off Screen Man] Yeah we spent, started with (mumbles) finding. – It’s the only way you can fix the leak, good job, keep going. (talking over each other) – [Off Screen Man] At the same time. – You can imagine how much I love listening and reading all my comments because if you noticed what you did for your business is a lot more fun to just lay in your underpants and read about versus having to fly around. Makes sense? Keep going. – [Off Screen Man] So at the same time one of the challenges is our new customer acquisitions slowed down.
So part of that is the cross and the chasm, we’ve early adopters, the folks who are more at a. – And the market for customer acquisition in the macro has changed, that is just the punchline. They’re just it’s like very real. Like shit is changed. – [Off Screen Man] So as that’s changing, I’m putting pressure on the team saying we need to go where the attention is but there’s this balance between brand and selling which is, hey I’ve got two objectives. Really for the long run it’s about brand and value. But we also need a good sales trajectory so. – So let’s talk about the Army versus Navy SEALs. The reason it works is because we do not send the Army in to kill Osama Bin Laden.
That is sales and branding. It can’t be, and this is not picking, sales and marketing under one thing all the way to the top or wherever it goes above you is a tricky game. Because inevitably he’s held accountable or above, again I don’t know the full, but you know where I’m going with this. Everybody fucks up marketing because they’re gonna always lean into sales because they need to hit short term objectives, the end. That’s where leadership has to come in and create rules for engagement. That’s why I love 80/20, it’s why I love Army and Navy SEALs, it’s why I win.
I create businesses like Vaynor that is my foundation of 80, and then I taste with 20% around it, that’s how Vaynor X got built, and then even outside the Vaynor universe that’s how the K Swiss and the Empathy Wines and all that, this is how it all works. That’s marketing ’cause everybody’s a sales like you’re a sales organization. So let’s put a little fund on the side or a little team on the side and that’s marketing, and if it goes to dead zero, you’ve decided at the macro level that $800,000 to dead zero is super fine by me ’cause you know it’s not gonna be dead zero but now you’ve created autonomy and lack of confusion and to actually make that happen.
Same thing I told him, in the macro it’s what I want you to do. That’s why I’ve created Vaynor X, same reason. Okay here we try to do everything under Vaynor, here are the things we’ve learned (mumbles). Now it’s Sasha and fucking (mumbles) and it will keep going. Commerce is gonna kick out too. Because kicked out right now Robby has to navigate it’s organs within bodies. Create a separate body. Sales and marketing is mixed and that means you’re actually doing sales. And if marketing is put into a place where it’s all upside because marketing is gray. It is intuitive right? So if the rule is 500,000 I’m making shit up, and like there’s no at the end of the day it’s like if you were the head of it for me, I’d be like it’s 500,000 and my team will tell you this, James will definitely tell you this, it’s like I don’t give a fuck, we’ll talk at the end of the year, explain yourself.
But I have no fucking judgment, I’m not booing or cheering along the game. Just tell me when it’s triple zero and explain to me why we lost 112 to 88 or why we won 112 to 88, and you just hold that person accountable. That’s how marketing needs to work ’cause that’s marketing. You have to be able to do something ridiculous like buy $50,000 worth of bananas and send them to dentists just ’cause it’s so ludicrous that they’re like what the fuck? You see where I’m going though like as silly as what I just said to you, you would be shocked how smart what I just said actually is based on how silly it sounds. The world is busy. The way you break through is by breaking patterns. If you’re a fucking dentist and you get a banana sent to you in the mail and you wrote a note on it in pen, that’s just weird.
Weird enough to give you awareness. But what’s really fun is when you know your industry. So when you know your industry and let’s say fluoride’s getting demonized or the emergence of like I don’t fucking know, you know, but like and there’s something like funny and it’s like an inside joke and then that is your banana, now you really got something. Right? – [Off Screen Man] Question for you. – I’ll give you a wine comp. Rose’s so hot that what I would do is do an anti-Rose movement. Like I would send to everybody a bottle, if I was trying to get the wine retailers, I would send them like a sparkling wine named Fuck Rose. That would get everybody’s attention because you would be playing to what’s happening. That’s so you know what that was? That’s just like me telling him pre-roll YouTube and that’s right. What I just told you is right but what you fill it with, the banana or the, that’s the game.
As you can imagine if you’ve played this out, this is why I fell in love with the internet. Wait a minute. Unlike when I was doing print, radio, and television I only had one chance to figure it out. Now I have 31 chances to figure out if it’s banana or fluoride or Fuck Rose? Fuck. Got it? And then what you do is you build a team that makes that affordable. Like the amount of money people, people that are trying to replicate my model but are overspending on the tech or the lighting or the post-production, that’s not gonna work.
If you’re running a motorboat you don’t fill it the same way you fill a cruise ship, it’s gonna sink, and that’s what people are doing, they’re over thinking. And then that then led to the next part which is don’t overthink your content because that wasn’t the physical manifestation, it was the mental manifestation. You know when owners and CEOs jump in and look at their Instagram account they’re like I don’t like that picture, and it like breaks the whole machine. So like all these things. – [Off Screen Man] Thinking about content marketing and the pillar versus the micro, the examples up here were like video content. But what if you don’t have the video to start with or you’re not sure what should be? Does it matter how you start? – Yes.
– [Off Screen Man] With the medium? – Yes it matters. Like video is the answer, that’s the punch. Like what video does is allows every to trickle underneath. ‘Cause you can turn it into written, you can turn it into audio, or you can turn it into micro-video. If you don’t start with that you’re limited, which is okay. But the answer is yes it is highly important if you can do video. Now how you do video is the next debate. So where I always get worried about my own advice is that people take things so literal that they may think that have to be like me. Like I can’t wait, and by the way there’s millions of these people, I just haven’t I don’t do the homework.
But you know how many people are super monotone and just information based and doing extremely well on YouTube or podcast? They’re not charismatic, they don’t curse, they just know their shit. To me, this is utility and entertainment. So I work really well ’cause I do both. But one or the other is more than fine. Models and comedians are doing well ’cause they’re bringing entertainment and escapism. And like PhD engineers can do well on LinkedIn because they really know their craft and the 87 people they’re trying to get to appreciate that, right? So you see where I’m going right? Like I like to, you could see where I’m going with the content pillars for you guys. Like I love the idea of like going at the human truth of like are you unhappy in your profession, right? Like that’s just a whole.
And I think your profession uniquely is one of the six or seven that you can get real upside. But then there’s also, what I would tell you on the utility side is put out information that helps every dentist in the world that has nothing to do with your product and service. – [Off Screen Man] That’s part of the (mumbles) providing value. – Great so then I would say imagine that you sold the company and became dentist daily, the number one provider of information for dentists in the world, and the only rule of this new company is you can’t put out content that had to do with your prior company and then start pumping out that content.
What payment service you should use? Which app is the best lead gen for you to get clients? Why five dentists should start a micro-fund together to invest in information for them that is massively valuable as a top of the funnel awareness once it brings them value? My entire business model is to guilt people into doing business with me because I provide so much fucking value. That’s what you should do, it will work. And crush LinkedIn. So like cool now we’ve decided the creatives thing, pound LinkedIn. You can target dentists. – [Off Screen Man] Question for you, what about we’re talking about B2B. – Because you think that C can give you leverage with B? – [Off Screen Man] I think it can if it, people are more aware. – It’s a better experience, that’s why I joined the company. – [Off Screen Man] Yeah with pediatric element of the business there’s extremely strong because parents don’t, you’re using it on my kid, see how they’re dying (mumbles) use it.
So how do I? – Oh well that’s the fucking most. Like listen, that’s the best. Like this is why I love Intel, right? Intel did such a good job with C as a chip provider that we weren’t willing to buy your computer unless Intel was inside of it. Yeah I mean listen, you know nothing would like now you’re talking about the thing that would be interesting for me to work on because nothing makes me more happy than to force some dentist that’s a dick face and doesn’t wanna use us, to have to use us because we went after his customers or her customers and forced him to.
The best feeling in the world. Love it. So yeah I think there’s something there. Now consumers harder but you know what’s ironic? My first intuition on that is parents are scared. In a way that like is really fucked up actually. And this is the greatest generation of over-fearful parents and I would probably exploit that. I’d pump a lot, Facebook will crush for you on this, you know? And this is where you’re thinking about basically at it’s most simplest form, I’m gonna make this assumption and obviously things are changing in our society but still I’m sure moms are making a lot of these decisions, so I would probably target moms around four to five core messages around fear to pressure their dentist. – [Off Screen Man] I’ve changed dentists.
I fired him because he wouldn’t use our product. If more people knew about it, they would do the same thing. – Then I would do micro-testing in places where you think you have good penetration of dent, like the first I’d probably do if I was part of this team be like all right where do we have the best penetration of dentists using us? Cool it’s Denver, okay let’s tap Denver and see what happens because then there’s a lot of options for them to switch versus like. Convenience is king, even if you scare them that like they’re gonna (yell) you know? Even if oh shit my only option’s 45 minutes, fuck it let the kid cry, you know that kinda thing? So that’s something to think about. But I would go with videos of like whether it’s testimonials, whether it’s like reenacting scenes, like moms love to, like everybody but in this scenario like just literally hiring college students or starving actors to do like two minute video of like reenacting a scene that like is this happen in your house? And like there’s a lotta smart stuff you can do.
And you’re always one video away. Which is why I want you to make more. – [Off Screen Woman] What do you think is the best way to figure out what is of value to your audience? They are. – The B’s? – [Off Screen Woman] Yes. They are very busy and if we reach out or listen to them on Facebook it’s a lot of like the assistants, it’s the auxiliaries on the Facebook group to know it’s not the patients themselves. Is it in person? – Yes. – [Off Screen Woman] At trade shows for instance? – No. – [Off Screen Woman] Or visiting them one-on-one? – Yes but I have a little idea.
So I’m a big fan of golf and wine. So I think you, I think you should create semi-annual events that you spent some real money. Now mark, this is why marketing’s fun, right? Flying in 25 people, getting a nice steak dinner, you know like Santa Barbara’s good. So you’re already like honestly with the way the wine business is right now, I would probably go knock on every winery in Santa Barbara, inevitably somebody’s gonna and literally ask for free. Like look we’re gonna bring you 50 dentists that have money. We want everything for free when it comes to the winery, want the setup for free, want the dinner for free, want the wine for free. No? Cool, there’s 700 other wineries in Santa Barbara. Somebody’s in trouble. Got it? I’d probably do that. And then I would run ads or do direct calls. You could play two ways, you could prospect and run ads and say hey we’re doing this thing, fill out a form, we’re selecting, so it’s velvet rope. Or if ’cause you want the information, you’re tripling down on your VIPs.
Or I’ve always liked the B-list, you know a lot of people do everything for their top customers? I’ve always thought the B was an interesting customer, Right ’cause they could become an A or you could lose them. So you see where I’m going? I can see you’re picking up what I’m putting down. So golf and wine, and then anything else, golf and wine are just intuitive to me because that’s what I. I was in the wine stuff and I just know people are ludicrous about going to golf events, but there’s, there might be something that’s really natural to your DNA.
It might be rafting, it might be camping, it might be bowling, but like creating something somebody actually wants to do then layering a conversation in whatever form you do it, as you can imagine wine is super conducive to that ’cause it’s a wine dinner. You then overlay the thesis of this is actually dentist. I started something called Agent 2020, one because it was like about the bigger thing, so maybe this is not even about you, this is about dentist industry symposium.
I always like using the future so like dentistry 2025, right? Like where’s it going? So it’s a conversation, maybe you pull some sort of, maybe back to marketing, maybe spend $5,000 to have somebody who has gravitas in the industry, I don’t know the industry well enough, but like a retired athlete carries weight that’s why they pay Hank Aaron $10,000 ’cause somebody wants that selfie, and that got them in the room and then they got the question they wanted answered, it’s just arbitrage. It’s just arbitrage. But how you package the arbitrage is the game, right? When you’re calling me as a dentist I know you’re looking for information.
Fuck you, not interested see ya, right? You’re inviting me to Dentist 2025, you’re gonna educate me on what to do on social media to build my practice? I’m gonna be able to play golf and have dinner and Hank Aaron’s there? Interested. It’s a $79,000 investment. But the info’s valuable. – [Off Screen Woman] Right because then we can take that message and. – And if you spend, and back to what we’re talking about, you make the 50 people 25 B clients, and 25 prospects, it can get real interesting real fast. Got it? So those are the nuances. – [Off Screen Woman] Thank you. – You’re welcome. – [Off Screen Woman] Okay you’re gonna be a tiebreaker between my husband and I. – Can’t wait. We’re either gonna call him with happiness or sadness, here we go. Don’t try to lead the witness. – [Off Screen Woman] So I believe in an exclusivity model, you can only. – You’ve led the witness, go ahead.
(laughing) – [Off Screen Woman] I believe in inclusivity model you can only get beautiful disaster from beautiful disaster, much very similar to the Victoria’s Secret model. The only other place they’re at is Amazon, I’m fine with that. – The answer is you’re both right. – [Off Screen Woman] ‘Cause you know he wants to do full freaking wholesale. – You’re both right. – [Off Screen Woman] So what do we do? – You decide what business you wanna build. – [Off Screen Woman] We wanna build a business where other people aren’t trying to take our customer. – I understand that, that’s not what I’m saying. Because then you get the, you’re going into the tactic of why you want your model. You need to figure out what business you’re building.
So for example, you’re looking to run slower, he’s looking to run faster. That’s the actual manifestation of this conversation. Which is okay. If it’s business you’re building, right? Like to you it’s your baby, which is why you don’t want anybody to fuck it up. To him, he’s trying to think about how to grow it quicker. – [Off Screen Woman] He’s okay with a two times return and I like the retail dollar. He’s okay with wholesale. – That’s a different conversation I think and it leads to the next question which is, what business are you trying to build? The answer to your question comes in what do you, do you both agree on where you want revenue and profit to be in 2025? ’cause if you don’t, already the debate becomes convoluted.
– [Off Screen Woman] Yes we do. – Okay well then, what is that? Because if you both agree where you want it to be in 2025, all I have to understand is where the business is at now, and how realistic the numbers are predicated on the data. And then the reality is he’s probably gonna be right because it’s too short of a window for you to do it your way. Which is why it’s fun for me because the recent, I never want anything in 2025 or 2022 or 2029, which allows me to be a marathon runner.
If I had any arbitrary number goal ever, I’d be a sprinter. – [Off Screen Woman] Yeah I think we have a 2028 goal (cuts out). – But that’s a bullshit answer, right, in a good way. You just made that up. Like why not 213? Why not 87? But you know what I mean? And I think you need to think about that. I’m giving you that in a love way, same as Quit. That you also made up, why? I mean you might have a very good answer which is like hey Gary, actually ’cause we wanna buy this island for $76 million and if we sell it for dollar for dollar at 150, that’s our post-tax money and we’re gonna buy this island in Peru.
And I’m like okay now you’re right. Otherwise you’re just making up shit. Predicated on the data that you’re sitting with right now. It’s just arbitrary. This is how you answer this question. – [Off Screen Woman] We’re both right. – You’re both right but the actual ’cause you gotta make a decision is predicated on do you have a number, do you wanna sell the brand one day, don’t you? Do you emotionally care about somebody discounting it when they told you they weren’t going to? Do you give a fuck, don’t you? The reason so many things are easy for me is I don’t give a fuck. He’s using my signature on a thing and I have no idea what the fuck he’s talking about.
My signature is my most important IP. And I don’t give a fuck ’cause I like him and fine Nate did something, wants to sell 5 bottles, 15 cases, 40 case, like but like do you know how many people would freak the fuck out with that? So like it just matters, the answer is very individual. You know? There’s like most of the things I do most people don’t agree with. Most of the things I do most people don’t agree with because I’m unique in my lack of interest in short-term money. And I’m now starting the debate even money in itself. I just like my process. And if you wanna choose your process, well then it’s gonna happen slower. And that’s okay. – [Off Screen Woman] But will it? That’s where I get stuck. – Yes it will. – [Off Screen Woman] The brick and mortar model is.
– No because the, let me phrase. If you execute everything properly, more distribution will lead to more revenue. It just it will if both are done properly. If you fuck it up, to your point, like look if you do a deal with (cuts out) and they fuck it up. (cuts out) they do something so shitty that it hurts your brand, like to your point, it might not. But yes there’s a reason that licensed brands get the higher dollars quicker because you’re the friction of getting the product. I have no idea about your brand, but when I go on Amazon and search something and your brand pops up, now I do.
And I live on Amazon, not your fucking .com. – [Off Screen Woman] Yeah I’m okay with Amazon. – Listen James will tell you, (mumbles) James can talk to you guys about like why I didn’t wanna do. James walks into my business like we’re getting so much deal flow and he was really logically in a great way. He’s like hey I’m gonna cram all these JVs on the, we’re just gonna make money. People come in, we’ll send it to Carol to do that kind of stuff, and we’ll get a commission, and I’m like no no no. And like it’s because I just wanted to create everything for myself, I was willing to go slower. We could’ve made a lot more revenue. But that’s how (cuts out) got destroyed.
It bastardized brands. And so like it just depends on what you want. Makes sense? And it starts with both how you want it, you know? And then how much, right? I always talk about how you make your money’s more important than how much. It’s like putting your pillow. Same for you, this is your baby. Easy for him to say, you know what I mean? And so you might be fearful what fucking (cuts out) does with it. – [Off Screen Woman] For sure. – Well. That’s that. But there is no cake and eat it here too, you will get to the revenue faster, you will. Very likely. What about this, it’s a crazy idea. But what about borrowing money from a bank? This has become the most fascinating thing for me. The fact that I had to deliver that sentence with this is a crazy idea, it as the only way. There’s enough of us in here that aren’t 28. That was it, there was no VC, there was no raising capital. There’s so much money in the system that’s what happened but you know, why give up a piece of your business and have all that chirping if you’re so confident in yourself, go get a loan.
It’s really weird but I’m really into it. Like I’m so excited that my hot advice is to borrow money from a bank. (laughing) And I really like the more you’ll talk this it makes so much sense, but it’s so out of the lexicon in the business world. Like I don’t know the last time I heard somebody say it. – [Off Screen Man] You used it to build your media brand. – It’s everything I believe like yeah. We have a credit line, that was a good idea. I didn’t wanna give up more equity. Bet on yourself. People are using it because it’s a fake version of betting on yourself. It’s not gonna take that much money and if the business is doing great, a bank’s gonna feel pumped to get interest on that. I don’t know the latest, the landscape of loans. I’m not educated but if your business is doing great, I have a funny feeling somebody’s interested in lending money.
– [Off Screen Man] Should I try to double or triple down on my strengths within each business as far as scheduling time, doing my thing? – You personally? – [Off Screen Man] Yes. – 100% Like nothing I believe in more than the fact that most people lose is they waste time on trying to fix shit that’s never fixable. And what I mean by that is I’m not gonna be an NFL quarterback. And I’m not gonna be not high energy. Do you guys understand that if I was 13% less high energy that I would be two times bigger? There’s a lot of people that can’t deal with my energy. Do you understand that if I didn’t curse that I would have 12 million followers, not six? Like people don’t get it.
But I’m just a buyer of like being who you are. And to your point I do think in 30 year terms you can further, just not in five. And then you added three more, but you know what I mean? See where I’m going? I think you’re right in a 30 year window. I think he might be right in a five year window. Got it? – [Off Screen Man] Got it. – I could be so much bigger if I toned it down a hair, cleaned up a little language today, not in 12 years. Got it? Understand? That’s how I think about strengths and weaknesses.
– [Off Screen Man] What patterns have you seen that help people get over their fear of trying new things? – By actually kissing the girl. By actually throwing the person in the pool. By actually skydiving. – [Off Screen Man] Do it. – Correct. It’s the universal truth. Everything you were scared of became less scary after you did it. And then you’re like “why the fuck was I scared of that?” – [Off Screen Woman] Do you think it’s possible for a company to build a personal connection to their customers without having (mumbles)? – Yes I do. It’s how people feel about Peloton or Nike or Apple, but it’s hard. But your ambition isn’t to be that big and so in the micro yeah I do. I think it’s reputation, right? It’s old school shit. But old school shit takes old school tactics, right? But new stuff can be gateway drugs to old school tactics, that’s the example I gave you.
You can recruit 25 new dentists through LinkedIn for your old school dinner. I use digital to be a gateway drug to old school shit. And then I get smart about it like this is old school shit, I like this. How did I make it much better? D-Rock films it which could lead to three pieces of content that creates top of the funnel for me. Becomes even more valuable. Q and A is my best format ’cause it gets me to new thoughts that I’m not getting to myself. Got it? The whole framework is built to make everything work. Which is why I’m able to charge so little for the value because I’m amortizing it out out of getting the content, which creates top of funnel. Makes sense? I love when people secretly talk to each other from (mumbles). Especially like people are getting real results, it’s a real good deal if you actually do the thing we say, you know? Feels great. You know I’m an SMB, right? I come from this world so it’s fun.
